I know there was more than one camera on the neighboring house. For the purpose of this post I will be discussing only the one that caught vehicle leaving the McStay driveway.
Can we believe that the time stamp on the neighbor’s surveillance video to be accurate? Could the time be off a few minutes, in either direction? We don’t know how old the camera was or if it was there with the house when the owner moved in. With age, technology can become faulty and often unreliable.
The video time stamp may be off. Even by a few minutes. It’s called “drift” and it’s very common. A surveillance video can drift up the several hours. If it’s off by 15 20 minutes it makes more sense with the check making activity on the home computer.
Fran
I know Fran has a mind like a steel trap and is arduous in her research. I was curious about this Drift thing and asked her to do some digging. Apparently, drift happens with audio as well. I know, there was no audio in the video but it helps in the theory.
“With timecode, unless the cameras or recorders are re-jam-synced frequently, their timecode will start to drift apart. The problem is that the quartz crystal (or other piezo-electric material) clocks used in many cameras and quite a few audio recorders are too imprecise for critical applications. This means that two different clocks may have two different opinions on how long a second is, causing recordings to drift apart over time. Depending on the camera or recorder, the timecode may drift as much as a field in a non-trivially short space of time (30 minutes in some cases). Even a field offset is enough that sound and picture will become visibly out of sync when combining the two elements later, in post.” http://tinyurl.com/js5veby
“According to the FBI training video, Caught On Camera, more than half of all security camera systems have the wrong time stamped on their surveillance video by at least an hour because of daylight savings time or input error. This means that the recorded surveillance video that is brought into evidence immediately after an incident will be out of sync time wise with the chain of events. I’ve even seen video with several hours difference from the actual time or even the wrong date by a few days.” http://tinyurl.com/znhnuhd
As established in an earlier post, we believe Chase Merritt arrived at the Fallbrook home at approximately 7:15 pm. The next activity is the video capture with the time stamp of 7:47. So is it plausible to think he brutally murdered 4 people, semi-cleaned up, loaded the bodies in his truck and left?
As stated above, the 7:47 time stamp may not be totally accurate. The next activity we have is that pesky home computer login for someone making another check for chase merritt and deleting it. 8:05. Then the 8:28 phone call from Joseph’s phone to Merritt, which pinged in Fallbrook. Something to note here, a Body Glove phone cover was found In the grave with Summer. Was it Summer’s or Joseph’s? Maybe they became separated in the scuffle? Also, why wasn’t Joseph’s phone on him? A call was made, obviously he wasn’t making the call himself if we believe he was wrapped up in the house, and dead.
So did Chase make the call?
Whatever the scenario, that phone call time stamp is more reliable than the video time for sure. And it pinged in Fallbrook.
The next activity is Merritt’s phone turning back on at 9:32 in Mira Loma. So, driving in traffic from Fallbrook to Mira Lona at that time of night would have not been light but not congested either. The only real congestion would have been at the 91/15 interchange and at that time of night it would be minimal.
The speed limit in California is 70 mph on the freeways. I learned years ago (then the speed limit was 65) from a guy who knew everything about traffic laws and many police officers, that the one speed to drive (max) without being pulled over is 72 mph. It really depends on the flow of traffic though. I typically will keep it under 80. The other day I passed a speedtrap doing 79 and the cop just sat there.
So, with all this we don’t have a clear image of that night. However there are still enough puzzle pieces. But take the time stamp out of the equation, it’s the wrong puzzle piece.
7:15
With the arrival of Merritt at the home he could have killed the the family in under 10 minutes. Maybe as much as 15.
7:30
Merritt is in crisis mode and quickly gathers cleaning supplies goes into action.
7:45 – 8:00
Merritt paints.
8:01 -8:05
Merritt goes onto the Quickbooks, prints and deletes check.
8:05 -8:25
Merritt returns to painting and cleaning.
8:25 – 8:28
In cleaning – or perhaps while wrapping Joseph – Chase comes across Joseph’s phone. It’s not locked. Chase activates it to see if Joseph called anyone else besides him, like the police. At this point Chase clumsily calls himself.
8:29-8:40
Chase loads the bodies, all four, into his truck. Most likely through the garage. He departs around this time, with the neighbors surveillance camera capturing his truck, picking up the unique markers.
7:15 – 8:40
Chase Merritt had successfully completed the murders, effectively cleaning and covering up his crime.
9:32
In or near Mira Loma, Chase turns on his phone. Further pings indicate he is driving away from Fallbrook.
I know the drive time I laid out to Mira Loma is tight. You would think he would have to be driving like a bat out of hell, on fire. But it’s really pretty simple.
From Fallbrook to Mira Loma is 60 miles. Let’s look at some calculations.
http://m.free-online-calculator-use.com/drive-time-calculator.html
Ok, so maybe 72 mph is too fast. Perhaps Chase played it safe and drove the speed limit. I put in 70 mph which calculated to 51 minutes.
Tips On How To Confess To Murder
If one was around to follow or remember the McStay case, should remember Chelsea King. On February 25, 2010, 21 days after the disappearance of the McStays and 20 miles south of Fallbrook, another horrific atrocity was being carried out.
17 year old Chelsea disappeared. A massive search ensued, the largest one ever conducted in San Diego county. Tim Miller and Texas Equisearch would leave the McStay case to assist. 5 days after she disappeared Chelsea’s remains were located in a shallow grave. She had been raped and strangled.
Chelsea King and Amber Dubois
Clothing found nearby a few days before had DNA on them from a man by the name John Albert Gardner. He was arrested on February 28. While in jail, Gardner admitted to murdering 14 year old Amber Dubois who disappeared a year prior. There was nothing to tie him the Dubois, he offered her up and led authorities to her remains.
This monster, destroyer of everything innocent and harbinger of evil, would go on to admit everything. Not out of pride, but out of shame.
Here is audio of Gardner telling his story. It’s astounding. There’s no gruesome details by the way.
Renegade:
adjective
having treacherously changed allegiance.
“The Jig is up”
“Oh mama, I’m in fear for my life from the long arm of the law Lawman has put an end to my running and I’m so far from my home
Oh mama, I can hear your crying you’re so scared and all alone
Hangman is coming down from the gallows and I don’t have very long
The jig is up the news is out they’ve finally found me
The renegade who had it made retrieved for a bounty
Never more to go astray
This will be the end today of the wanted man
Oh mama, I’ve been years on the lam and had a high price on my head
Lawman said get him dead or alive now it’s for sure he’ll see me dead
Dear mama, I can hear you crying you’re so scared and all alone
Hangman is coming down from the gallows and I don’t have very long
The jig is up, the news is out they finally found me
The renegade who had it made retrieved for a bounty
Never more to go astray
The judge’ll have revenge today on the wanted man”
Corn, your dedication to the McStay Family is apparent, as well as your quest for truth. Very much appreciate the time you put into your research. Thanks for bringing forth another thread to discuss.
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Thanks Murph. It took much of the week to complete, with several revisions because I wanted to get it right. And I know there are some typos, just fill in the blanks. I’m not able to edit anything right now as I am technically handicapped for the time being and WordPress is not mobile phone friendly. There is supposed to be a sail boat at the top, so just picture that for now.
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Corn
Not complaining but just a quick thought about the timeline you present and some inconsistencies. Let’s look at the arrival time, the loading of the truck and the description of the truck by the SBCS.
First Joseph’s phone show’s to be in Fallbrook somewhere between 4:30 and 5:30 pm on the 4th. But what if that is CM with Joseph’s phone and he is texting Summer and checking Joseph’s voicemail along with setting an alibi of Joseph being in Fallbrook when in fact he was not there.
Second, if CM had Joseph’s phone and was in Fallbrook at 5:30pm, he had far more time and one less person to murder, making it easier for what you claim of the cleaning, computer and loading.
Third, the description of the vehicle by the SBCS would only be possible if the truck was pulled in with the frontend facing into the house. That would be the only way the camera picked up the tailpipe and side marker light on the truck. If it were backed in the tailpipe and side marker light would be much harder to see as would the tailpipe. Now if the truck were pulled in face forward the tailpipe and side marker light along with the loading of bodies would be much easy to be seen from a number of the houses around the cull de sac and the camera on the house across the street. Also CM would have had to make more than one trip loading the truck and it would be far more dangerous. That would expose him to more detection and cause questions from neighbors when he made multiple trips to load the truck with the back facing the street and other houses also exposing the tailpipe and side marker light to the camera.
Just a few of the inconsistencies. That would also mean again that it is possible that Joseph never made it home that day and CM had Joseph’s phone. It also gives more time to CM to complete his actions in the house that night along with the fact he could have arrived earlier. Only problem with this is that CM phone was turned off somewhere around 5:30pm and registered in RC as I recall. However with CM cell off at 5:30pm that would also give more time to arrive long before your estimated 7:15pm.
I have to wonder if the real information about the locations of CM cell was mistaken as to where it was located when it was turned off on the 4th. As I see it we still have no conclusive proof Joseph made it home that day.
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So the 8:28 call lasted almost 3 minutes? So the 5:47 call never actually registered on Chase’s phone, it was only from Joey’s phone records that you could see. So if Chase’s phone was turned off and the call lasted almost three minutes, how does that work? Does it just go straight to voicemail and so that then means that either a message was left on Chase’s phone or (Chase) just let it sit and it was white noise.
If it is true that Chase’s phone did ping at 5:30, that does give him an extra 20 minutes to get to Fallbrook – but since Chase had the phone with him when it pinged at 9:32, I do not see how he could have been with Joseph earlier when Joseph’s phone pinged in Fallbrook at approximately 4:30. The only way that could be possible if I am correct is if there was more than one person involved and that person brought with him/her Chase’s phone after it pinged in RC at 5:30.
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*Correction, the 5:47 call lasted almost 3 minutes (not the 8:28 call)…
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I’m not Murph, but I get it.
Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!
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Thanks for the new thread.
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I think video forensic analyzers may have used a video compression kit calked Omnivore video capture and analyzed the frames pixel by pixel. Investigators also may have used the suspects vehicle as well as the victims vehicle in an exact reenactment then overlaid the reenactment onto the video images looking for a match. This is how I think they were able to rule out the trooper as being the in the video.
I don’t think it matters which way the truck was parked in the driveway as far as forensics ability to ID the truck as belonging to Merritt, or to say that the truck in the video is consistent with the truck Merritt was driving at the time. The tailpipe muffler and marker lights were all on the passenger side which was the side that was visible as the truck drove down the street past the neighbours. Some unique mark or feature was also visible on the front bumper.
I do think that Cornelius has it right and the truck was backed up with the tailgate accessible from the garage. II had also read somewhere that it was the trucks headlights being turned on that triggered the surveillance camera?
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In terms of loading the bodies into his truck I think he would have backed it up to the garage, and likely brought them through the garage and that it was probably partially open. Otherwise he would take a huge risk of being seen moving the bodies onto the driveway in full view.
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Even though they were probably wrapped in bedding.
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Or packed in boxes or totes 😦 or rolled into a carpet.
It still leaves the question of where the trooper was parked. Gray Hughes theory has the trooper parked in the road, but why would JM not park his car in the driveway? If the trooper was parked in the driveway nose first and Merritt moved it to the road so he could back his truck in…then why wasn’t that captured on the neighbours video?
Really looking forward to hearing the prosecution’s theory of how this played out.
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I also think the Trooper was parked on the road. If you look at the picture of the Dodge in the driveway the way it was parked when the picture was taken after they went missing (presuming it wasn’t moved, the Feb. 5th newspaper was found by the tire and not run over IIRC)…in that picture the Dodge is right next to the middle line. Then if you compare a picture of the Trooper which in the driveway there does not seem to be enough room to open the driver side door if the Trooper were to drive front first – or for that matter, Chase’s truck. On the other hand, it is possible Chase moved the Trooper so onto the street and then back his truck up so that he could unload the bodies.
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How about CM having his phone with him and he took the battery out of it? That would keep it from pinging off towers and send anything to voicemail or would it? I still don’t think CM removed them on the 4th or cleaned up. I think he returned late on the night of the 5th and cleaned and removed them that night, burying them the morning of the 6th.
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Merritt would have needed to clean himself of blood. Even if he was wearing coveralls he would need to wash and maybe change his shirt, clean his shoes. All that would take time. And I think he would do that before removing the futon cover to wrap Joseph. It’s possible that the CM surprised the family by coming in thruogh the back sliders, JM may have been attacked while sitting on the futon and the futon cover and pillows got bloody and would need to be removed anyway. So why not use them to disguise one of the bodies. Perhaps it was just JMs body that was removed on the 4th. CM may have returned later that night to clean and dispose of the rest of the family. And return again the afternoon or evening of the 5th to clean and paint.
If the timestamp on the neighbours video was off by an hour and it was really 8:47 that Merritt’s truck is seen leaving the house then that lines up with the time needed for him to drive to Mira Lola and have his phone ping at 9:32.
I don’t think he had enough time to get everyone out of the house on the 4th.
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It’s possible JM could not have made it home. I think about the absence of the Trooper. Shouldn’t it have been caught on camera as well? Unless it was parked on the street. Why didn’t the camera catch Merritt’s truck arriving?
The things that give me pause to believe JM did get home is that he was wrapped in the futon cover, he was killed with the same weapon/manner and he was without shoes like the others.
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Right, the items found in the graves came from in the home indicating they were wrapped. Unless Joseph was alive but injured and brought back into the home in Fallbrook where he was killed, but that seems too risky.
Also, the way they were dressed indicates they were inside the home. I’m not sure if Joseph always wore flip flops, or if he wore any other kind of shoes, but were any of their shoes actually found in the home. I read that Summer’s Ugg’s were found in the home.
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Here’s a thought, what if Joseph and CM went to the shop after the lunch meeting and Joseph was attacked in the shop. It could be possible that he took a jacket off and had a t shirt on. I wonder if his jackets were accounted for at the house? I also don’t think Joseph would be wearing flip flops in February on a rainy cold day. It was in the 40’s and 50’s that day according to all weather reports.
I have to agree with Corn, about the Trooper and the neighbors camera not activating if the Trooper was there and also when CM’s truck arrived (or did it and we aren’t being told). To many questions unanswered. I think the SBCS knows far more than they are saying and may be also misleading the public (they don’t have to tell the public the truth until trial). Many of these questions will be answered at trial.
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I also wonder if Joseph would typically wear shorts on a cold day? Maybe it got up to the 60s during the day on the 4th, that could explain why he was wearing shorts.
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I have been trying to figure out why Baker was so adamant that the family was NOT killed in the home. But why?
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Cause he’s an idiot 🙂
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Two things, his shoes could have been removed to be like the others or for some odd reason. Also remember the two different tracks at the gravesite. It has been discussed that they could have been made at two separate times and that could match why Joseph has never been proven to have made it home on the 4th. Second there is also material in the shop and you can see it in the pictures. That was white or off white material that was used to wrap fountains with to protect the glass and other parts.
We have also not heard anything about the futon from the prelim or from le, so I don’t think anyone really knows what the material was Joseph was wrapped with. I think it may have been mentioned that the material Joseph was wrapped in was similar to the futon, but nothing definitive has been said that it was the futon cover.
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Yes in the prelim it seems they believed it’s the futon, but I think possibly was too eroded to determine for certain.
It is interesting though that McGyver said he saw the futon cover on the 3rd of February. Wouldn’t a family member have come forward to say they removed the futon for washing, etc., like when Susan was in the home cleaning up?
“Joseph McStay was wrapped in a tannish woven blanket or
article of cloth that had seams on it, which appeared to be
consistent with the cover from the futon that was missing at the
time they went missing, the family went missing.”
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I believe there was one pillow with its cover remaining from the futon set. But it’s possible it wasn’t seized as evidence when the house was first searched,, so it may be lost. Investigators may only have photos of the futon to compare to the fabric JM was wrapped in. I will say this tho, Canadian forensic investigators were able to get a match of a suspects fingerprint from a photo of a thumb. The photo was of a hand holding a gun, no face visible to identify who the hand belonged to,but the thumb was raised and the thumb pad was clearly visible. A fingerprint specialist was able to blow up that digital photo clear enough to analyze the print. That and a unique freckle on one of the suspects fingers sealed the deal.
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Wow that’s amazing re the fingerprint from the photo!!
Yes, you’re right Fran, this is from the warrants:
“Upon reviewing the digital photographs taken by SDSO of the McStay residence, a futon was pictured in the
living room of the residence at 34 73 Avocado Vista Lane. The futon did not have a cover and there was only
one pillow on the futon, also missing the cover.”
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This is also from the search warrants re futon cover:
“Investigators compared the photograph of the missing futon cover from Christmas 2009 and the blanket used to wrap Joseph McStay. Both items have the same stitched seam and weave pattern within the cloth.”
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And:
“The futon cover was used to wrap Joseph McStay and three pillows were missing along with all of the pillow covers. The clothing inside the residence was all over the floor.”
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I wonder if Merritt, after the attacks, rifled through the clothing and clean laundry looking for a fresh shirt to wear.
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That’s funny I thought of that too. He would have been covered in blood.
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Yes. Even if he donned mechanic type coveralls before he drove to the house, he would still need to wash his hands neck face. Ugh. And he would probably do that before treading on any carpet.
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It sure is amazing. Here’s the article, about half way down the page is the photo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-gun-likely-fired-inside-truck-1.3481024
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Thank you for posting the interview with John Gardner.
A while ago I listened to Caitlin Rother talk about the difficulties he had getting mental health help because he was a convicted sex offender and there was no facility willing to house him. She also talked about him being released early from the over crowded California prison system because he was classified as a non violent offender.
From listening to her I had the impression of a pimply faced troubled youth who was a victim of the system. Watching the news clips and listening to his words and tone I now have the very different impression that hes actually very cunning and manipulative. And regardless of what he says about being an opportunist, that he did stalk Amber.
The way he laughed about being tricked into revealing that there were maybe more victims was chilling.
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I think the message to learn from the Dubois/King case is DON’T EVER LET YOUR CHILDREN GO ANYWHERE ALONE. PLEASE. Also, women should at least attempt to pair up if visiting woodland or rural places.
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Corn, you are right. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Was it always this way? I remember as a kid going to the local park by myself, a lot, and was never concerned. Maybe I should have been. Sigh…
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I also remember going to park by myself, and walking many blocks to and from elementary school. I’d never let my grandchild go anywhere on her own these days.
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Yes, I walked what seems like forever to elementary school and junior high school. In fact it was 4 or 5 blocks total. Even walked to school in the rain. Never had to worry about snow in the Deep South. As I recall, getting wet seemed to be the most worrisome part. I don’t ever remember being scared to walk by myself – anywhere.
I got the ole eagle eye all over my GRANDkids. They are never by themselves, never ever.
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Maybe the contention that Joseph was not killed in the home is true. I always felt the electrical cord was a means of restraint. You wouldn’t tie it around the neck of a dead person. So, maybe the same goes for the futon cover and ratcheting straps, they were meant to be used as restraints, not to cover a dead body, but maybe a live one.
Why wasn’t Summer wrapped/ covered in a similar fashion? Why does Joseph have multiple blows to many parts of his body?
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Sadly I think Joseph was made to watch the death of his family.
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Summer may have been wrapped in the robe, there is some suggestion of that possibility in the search warrants. That either she was wearing it while attached or wrapped in it.
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The prelim indicates that the last ping in RC on the 4th on Chase’s phone was in fact at 5:48 PM. The call lasting almost 3 minutes, so I think that locks Joseph in being in Fallbrook and Chase being in RC at 5:48 – unless someone else was involved and brought Chase his phone later to enable that 9:32 call to ping on the way back from Fallbrook.
“A My analysis on February 4th starts at 9:51 A.M. And there are a multitude of calls throughout the day, through 5:48 P.M. And during that time the cell phone has contact with two
different cell towers that are adjacent to each other in the Rancho Cucamonga area.”
“At 5:48 did the defendant receive a call from Joseph, Sr., Joseph McStay, Sr.?
A Yes, that’s accurate.
Q How long did that call last?
A Approximately 2 minutes and 37 seconds.
Q After that phone call, when is the next phone activity on
the defendant’s cell phone?
A The next phone activity is at 9:32 P.M. on February 4th.”
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Some observations.
Chase claims the lunch meet was about 1 1/2 hours. They met around 1:00 based on the last texts of the time. Chase calls JM At 3:03, 3:32 and 4:18. 1 min, 3 min and 4 min.
At 4:28 Joseph checks his VM twice, first one lasts 4 and 2 minutes. Was Chase begging for a second chance? Was he asking to meet with him again? Was he threatening JM?
5:47 JM calls Chase back. It’s a 3 minute call. Chase turns his phone off mid-call. Chase’s phone pings in RC, JM’s in Fallbrook.
The drive from RC to FB at this time would have been roughly 80-90 minutes. This should put JM in FB about 4:28, if he left RC at 3:00. If we go by what Chase tells us, the meeting was 90 minutes or so, JM should have been in FB around 4:00.
There is a landline call to JM at 5:05, to which he did not answer. So JM was not home then.
If JM was in Fallbrook at 4:28 and not home at 5:05, and it’s a 90 minute drive home where was he for that 30-60 minute timeframe?
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Maybe he was shopping for groceries and refuelling the trooper? . Supposedly the kitchen had been freshly stocked with groceries, some of which were still on the counter when Mike first went into the home.
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Corn,
Let’s look at it like this about the phone call from JM’s cell to CM’s cell at 5:47pm. Let’s say CM left his phone in RC and he has JM’s cell phone with him in FB. So to establish that JM was alive and in FB, CM dials his phone from JM’s cell to establish and alibi for himself and to establish that JM was in FB and made it home on the 4th.
Now let’s look at it in two different possibilities that could be deduced. 1) CM calls his cell and it goes to voicemail and he just lets time pass then hangs up not saying anything but the time registers for the time until he hung up. 2) Scenario CM calls his cell and CL answers it and he tells her he is calling because he couldn’t find his phone and thought he lost it. CM knows this establishes his alibi of being in RC. He knows CJ will lie for him as we know she did in the interview with the SDSD. She doesn’t know at that time where CM is or what he is doing until later.
We will learn more hopefully in the trial, but all of this is very possible and would tend to support that JM never made it home on the 4th.
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Correction above: “CJ” “answers it and he tells her he is calling”
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The only problem is that Chase has the phone at 9:32 PM while he is driving from Fallbrook to RC. So if Chase left his phone at home and was in Fallbrook making the calls to himself – how does he physically have his phone at 9:32 on his drive back from Fallbrook? The only way would be if someone else was helping him and drove to Fallbrook to give him his phone.
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TrueCrime or another person had his phone and met him at the point it pinged from. For that matter he could have left his phone at the place it pinged from. Could be a friend or a location we know nothing about. The reason I question a lot of this is because I believe CM had this murder planned. He may not have been going to act at that time and with JM talking to his bank and possibly finding out on the 4th, CM had to act sooner than he planned.
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Jay, I have also wondered if he knew someone in Mira Loma and left his phone there. He may just rested up there, checked messages or whatever and returned to Fallbrook later that night.
It’s interesting that no one else has been charged. That certainly doesn’t mean that someone else wasnt involved.
I’m sure he did have these hideous crimes mapped out beforehand. Unfortunately, unless he confessed we will never know all the abcs of it.
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Here’s another bit of information that supports the idea that Merritt may have had several places available to him to use.
Detectives spoke with the owner of Keene Industries about Merritt. Merritt must be very good talker who people trust. He had full run of the place, was staying in a room on site and basically had “the keys to the castle”.
I would not be at all surprised to learn that Merritt had keys and similar access to other properties over the years.
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*I mean Chase has his phone on his drive back from Fallbrook, turning it on at 9:32 which the detective testified to that he was traveling towards RC.
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He’s pinging in Mira Loma at 9:32. He’s 40 or 50 miles from Fallbrook. He could have left the cul de sac at around 8:45.
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I think the timestamp may be off by an hour on the surveillance video. Maybe it wasn’t adjusted for daylight saving time. That would give him more time to clean himself up, enter the office and create delete the check. Strip the futon, wrap JM and conceal the others in containers of some sort. Load them all and drive away.
It makes more sense then driving away and then returning on foit to the house. But CM may have been in panic mode and not thinking clearly.
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*Foot
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I think we did a Google distance and it turned out to be exactly 60 miles distance.
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The only way for chase to be in Fallbrook at 5:47 or earlier is if someone else answered his phone, turned it off and then somehow made plans to meet him in Mira Loma for him to turn his phone back on. Or the co-conspirator turned it on for him.
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Question,
I see the time of the so called call to CM cell at 5:47pm, but what I don’t see is any confirmation of what type of call it was. The only thing stated was that the phone received a call, it doesn’t say it was not a call or that it couldn’t be a voicemail call.
He could have said it was a call not a voicemail but the witness didn’t explain the call or it’s type he just said it was a call of 2 minutes and 37 seconds. I don’t see the part where you state CM hung up in mid call. He just says how long the call lasted and the next activity on CM phone was at 9:32pm.
So what is to say that the caller hung up not CM? I think to much is being read into things that weren’t said. Now if you can show the witness saying that CM phone definitely hung up in mid call then it’s more plausible that CM had his phone with him. I don’t see anything that proves his cell wasn’t in Mira Loma and he left it in that area to establish an alibi. It’s like the remains buried in VV and the Trooper at the border, they were all planned out and used to deceive and throw off anyone that might be searching for them.
I still see no conclusive physical proof that JM made it home to FB on the 4th. Now remember, where were all the items used either from or possibly from. The hammer, consistent with what CM used in his shop. The red tie down straps, CM shop. The electric cord, consistent with electric cord found in CM shop. The only thing that would be from the outside is the cloth JM was wrapped in and we don’t know for sure that it was the futon cover.
SO looking at the cover, JM could have been murdered and hidden until after the others were and then brought (including the futon cover) to the shop to prepare for the burying. We just don’t know and I’m sure we will find out more at the trial. But many things are possible and we may never know all the truth of what happened or why.
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The sledgehammer has paint on it consistent with the paint used in the McStay’s home.
And doesn’t everyone wonder how and when CM cut his hand and where he bled?
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There was other witness testimony about the CM’s phone being turned off (of course, it could have died as well) in the midst of that call, while it pinged in RC. I will track it down.
We don’t have proof that JM made it home but some indicators seem to reason he did. Testimony about the futon cover I don’t think would have been brought up if the prosecution didn’t believe it was connected. Although LE has been mistaken before. But the burning question is, where is the cover? More to that, where are the other two for the large cushions?
As far as the ratcheting tie downs, they are very common items that could be found in anyone’s garage or trunk. The same for the hammer, as DA Ramos stated “A very common, household item”.
While I believe CM to be very intelligent (his artwork indicates so) I don’t feel he planned this out extensively. Most here would probably disagree with that. Most of the actions we’ve seen done by Merritt are demonstrations that he is an opportunist, not a master planner.
For me Chase was trying to skim out of the piggy bank and he got caught. Then it turned into a series of events that quickly spiraled out of control until he ultimately did what he felt he had to do.
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Corn,
All true but remember CM had a number of prior convictions dating back to the 70’s. He knew the California three strikes law and knew he could be charged as a habitual offender and could be sentenced under the three strikes law to up to life if he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar!
So the reach to murder was not such a big leap when you consider his record and the laws in California. CM had to know that stealing money, forging checks, and committing fraud and a number of other crimes would get him a very long sentence and life was a very good possibility!
So he had to have thought of all this back to the first check that we know of that he forged or when he stole the first money (it may be that we don’t even know when the first stealing of money took place). So I believe he had thoughts in his mind on prior occasions and he had thought out some of his actions that he used on the 4th and following days.
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I hear what your saying, Jay, but let’s look at his logic.
So, to avoid three strikes’ consequences he decided to commit capital murder which involves bludgeoning two toddlers to death? What an intelligent, well thought out idea!
Looking at the totality of this crime, imo, he seems to be a sociopathic, parasitic individual whose actions were likely fueled by an out of control addiction to gambling. When any addiction takes over one’s life, the individual often loses the ability to think things through and weigh all potential consequences of his actions.
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Jay, I think you’re right on about the staging being premeditated.
The computer search for travel requirements to Mexico happened, I think, on Jan 28. The bogus “chase merritt” custom account was created Feb 1st. The first stolen check was created and cashed on Feb 2.
I believe he had a well thought out plan in place prior to the first check being cut. My personal belief is that thoughts of murder and how he could get away with it were brewing inside of Merritt since he first helped them move and saw that cul de sac and all it stood for; financial stability, profit, security, moving forward, success and happiness, and all gained lawfully by hard work and perseverance. . I think Merritt was pissed off to no end with the thought of Joseph being successful and happy.
There’s an old sepia toned photo from the tail-end of the seventies of Merritt and his siblings, all decked out in bell bottoms and attitude. They look like hard bitten, tough kids from the “wrong side of the tracks” with some serious chips on their shoulders. (sorry Merritt family members if you’re reading here). Chase was the eeldest of, I believe, seven siblings. A single mom working full time stretching what she earned between her kids, dad nowhere to be seen. It’s not too much of a stretch for me to imagine Chase being very resentful of Joseph’s financial success and Joseph’s commitment to the happiness and well being of his family.
I’ve found a couple of articles about premeditated versus ad hoc crime scene staging, but the info is fairly thin. Theres a new book published by Laura Gail Pettler called “Crime Scene Staging Dynamics homicide”. I’m going to order it from my local library because it’s a subject I’m fascinated by bug know nothing about.
Hopefully there’s not too many spacing or typing errors….. I’m working on my second Budweiser! Happy spring equinox everyone!
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An interview with Laura Pettler
http://www.evidencemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2007
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Excerpt from the interview:
PETTLER: In my new book, I discuss monothematic staging and polythematic staging. Monothematic staging is unidirectional, meaning the stager only stages one aspect of the scene—such as only moving the weapon, only moving the body, or only cleaning up the scene. In contrast, polythematic staging is when a stager exhibits a multitude of staging behaviors to elaborately stage the scene—such as cleaning up the crime scene, moving the body, moving the weapon, destroying evidence, concealing evidence then lying about all of it.
Chase Merritt is a polythematic crime scene stager. Highly intelligent IMHO
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Corn,
Let me add, this man CM had a mind of thinking things out. That is clear in his designs and welded artwork, gold mining equipment, fountains and his prior crimes. This is a man who thought things out and planned his actions and then put things to action. His actions are seen in his crimes of theft, stealing money and also in the fabrications of the fountains and artwork. This is a man who thought things out before acting, this is not to say that he didn’t also act on impulse, he clearly did.
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Jay, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree until the trial and evidence is presented. I’m convinced Joseph made it home but I’m not convinced he was killed there or maybe even that night.
But I appreciate the feedback because it provides food for thought. I may run this blog but it’s the posters who really make it what it is, whether we agree or not. We all want the same thing.
I believe, for now, that the time line I suggested is how it played out. What Chase may have done after 9:32 is much grander mystery in which I think we all agree, Chase transported them somewhere. But where? He may have drove the truck to the warehouse and used a second vehicle to get home. Or called someone.
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Chase wasn’t some super intelligent person. He clearly THOUGHT he was smarter than everyone else, but obviously he was not. If you shut your phone off, during the period people believe your BFF was murdered, gee, there may be something to it. If you write checks and think you can delete them with no record of them being able to be brought up, call a quick books company and think they aren’t going to be suspicious when a caller wants a bunch of things ended, deleted, gone, when your cell pings in an area your BFF is found buried matching the supposed timeline of burial, when you withdraw thousands from your bank, call cell companies trying to hack a friends phone, etc. CHASE WAS A DUMB ASS WHO ONLY THOUGHT HE WAS SMARTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE. Just because he did metal work or made fountains doesn’t mean he was some meticulous planner. He was a mess, in business and personal life. A dumb ass cocky, selfish POS.
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A master manipulator is much different than an intelligent human being. Just because one is able to craft some beautiful things doesn’t mean he’s the brightest crayon in the box. He got caught committing multiple crimes. There are a lot more crafty criminals out there, who manage to steal and murder and not get caught – and even those people are not SMART, they are merely “lucky” that we live in a fallen world, with human beings that make mistakes and error often, escaping the law.
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Imagine what he has never been caught for.
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TrollfromAK, I agree, Merritt is definitely a dumb ass low life POS, that doesn’t necessarily preclude his being intelligent.I was speaking specifically about his ability to stage the crime scene. I’m waiting to hear if any evidence is brought forward about Merritt having the opportunity to plant that travel requirements Internet search on the Mcstay computer. If he did, that clearly shows premeditation days ahead of the first stolen check and supported the idea that they willingly went to Mexico. It seems like to me a fairly elaborate and cunning set up to staging the trooper at the border then staging the house to appear as if they left suddenly. He used his knowledge of the California justice system based on his criminal experience, that to me shows intelligence but he’s definitely no mastermind. He made lots of mistakes like leaving behind the double stroller, Summers glasses and the dogs that had the police thinking it was an abduction…
Of course his ruse was completely dependant on the graves never being discovered and it quickly fell apart the day the bodies were found…
Its a brutal cold and callous crime and he deserves to rot in hell and then some for what he did.
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Maybe it’s not intelligence so much as a cold hearted and monstrous brutality that allowed him to think clearly while he committed the crimes. I think most people would fall apart emotionally and mentally after bludgeoning a family to death and burying them in the desert.
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I think he clearly did some thinking, but not a whole lot. Just enough to try to trick people, but not enough that once investigating went down, his tracks would be covered.
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The interesting thing about Mira Loma, I have a feeling that Merritt’s defense for being in that location is that he is going to say he went gambling. But, that again brings up the subject of selective memory. He will lock himself down even more because he remembers everything in minute detail up until 5:48 and then he has no memory of what he was doing the rest of the night. Now if he suddenly “remembers” he was gambling when that 9:32 call was made – then surely he would have remembered that when he was interviewed by LE back in 2010. That juxtapose will come back to bite him.
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No casinos really close to there though. San Manuel and Morongo are the closest and many miles away.
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Oh, interesting, maybe that will be his explanation then as to why he was traveling back to RC when his phone pinged in Mira Loma. Otherwise, what other explanation do you think he will use? I don’t remember driving in Mira Loma at 9:32? It should be interesting.
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Just a quick reply about the futon cover. The family knew it was missing and wondered what happened to it from the beginning. It was one of those things that the family chose to keep quiet about even tho they were being accused of all sorts of horrible things re the futon cover.
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That leaves one logical conclusion which is that the futon cover was used to wrap Joey inside the home, combined with the preliminary report which states that what was used to wrap Joey was consistent with the futon pattern.
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I agree. I think it will be shown at trial that Joey was wrapped in the futon cover. Or at least, fabric and fibers that are are similar and consistent with the cover.
LE has said they found evidence in the grave(s) that links CM to this crime. Anyone have any ideas about what that might be?
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Just a guess, perhaps maybe it’s something like DNA on the beer can/bottle found nearby? Or on one of the keys found in JM’s pocket.
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I have always hoped they could get his DNA off the beer can (I think the cop who testified couldn’t recall if it was a can or bottle).
That beer can (or bottle?) has always bothered me so much. Just the thought of him standing over the grave and tossing it onto the bodies suggests the McStays’ remains were nothing more than garbage to him.
His DNA could also have been found on the electrical cord (which I think) he used to strangle Joey after the blows to his head failed to stop his respirations. I don’t think CM realized just how hard Joey would fight to defend his family.
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Maybe the red tie down straps. Perhaps LE found more of the same brand at Merritt’s home or shop.
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Maybe LE recovered a shoe imprint from the dirt from under one of the bodies.
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Metal fragments clinging to fabric.
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Maybe by some miracle a strand of Merritt’s hair survived and was found in the folds of fabric.
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I just heard about this. It’s pretty alarming actually.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
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Disturbing…of the 32 executed, sure hope there was more evidence than just the hair analysis.
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From a link in your link 🙂 all the forensic sciences are subject to human bias including handwriting analysis, bullet fragments and marks on bullets made by firearms, bite marks, shoe and tire prints and even fingerprints.
I think that’s why I like TV homicide detective Vera, she always gets the killer to confess.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/local/crime/forensic-techniques-are-subject-to-human-bias-lack-standards-panel-found/2012/04/17/gIQADCoMPT_story.html?tid=a_inl
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I have been assuming that any disturbance at the grave sites was only because of animal activity, but it seems as if the officer is making a distinction here between possible human and animal activity. What do you guys think?
“Well, the gravesites were apart from each other. One was
17 to the northwest, the other one was south and east of the first
18 one. The dirt was disturbed and was depressed at both sites.
19 Q When you say “depressed,” what do you mean?
20 A Meaning it appeared that it had been, something had been
21 dug up and then put back in. And it appeared that there was
22 some animal activity that had been trying to dig something up.”
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His testimony was unclear. I think he may have been trying to describe a settled grave that also showed animal activity, but who knows? A couple of the witnesses who testified at the prelim seemed sloppy but this could have also been due to not being adequately prepared by the prosecution. I hope their testimony is a lot sharper at trial.
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But, Fran, I wouldn’t put it past this monster to have revisited the graves to ensure that his “handiwork” was still buried.
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Yes, hopefully witnesses will have the opportunity to review their notes and be more prepared at trial. I get the sense that southern Californian police are run off their feet these days.
I wouldn’t put it past him either Murphy. But if he did, he missed the bra in the greasewood, the female end of the extension cord, the bones, fabric, the beer bottle/can.
Im leaning toward that the officer just read back his notes of his initial observations and impressions of the appearance of the site. The excavation of the grave site and any local follow up in the immediate days afterward was probably the extent of his involvement in the case.
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“Dug up and put back in”, maybe he was referring to when the grave was first being dug out and then the dirt shoveled back in over the bodies. Like you said Murphy, a settled grave.
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I’m thinking that’s a plausible reason. He was describing his first impression. Instead of saying “It looked like a couple of graves” and more to “It looked like someone dug a hole and filled it back in”.
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I also think that’s what they meant Fran and Murphy, the grave was dug, and filled back in. Not that the graves were disturbed again at a later date.
Insofar as the tracks, I also believe they were made at the same time. There’s a very small window where those permanent tracks could have been made with the weather conditions.
LE indicated in the prelim they believe the tire tracks were made at the same time:
Have you ever stepped in a mud puddle?
A I have.
Q What happens to your footprint when you step in loose
mud?
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Which grave appeared that way, who was in that grave and could it be the grave Joseph was in? Could it be that some of the speculation of the tire tracks being made two different times and the possibility of digging and reburying are related?
A lot of points were made about the two sets of tracks being made at two different times and that may be confirmed if the grave was dug and filled in and later it was re-dug and then filled in again. This would seem to lend credence to one another and why the tracts and the condition of the grave were related. Maybe they have pings from a cell that occurred later placing CM at or near the graves. The facts is we just don’t know at this time and we may hear this at trial. It is as has been said, we just won’t know till the trial. We may also never learn all the facts and truth and people will just tend to continue to speculate without any real proof as they have all along.
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Both graves.
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I forgot to say that because of the two different tracks, it could mean that the possibility of Joseph being murdered that afternoon might be why there was possible evidence of digging and re-digging of the graves.
That would seem to point to the possibility of two trips to the gravesite and the re-digging to add to the grave. Also there may have been things from the house that he wanted to put in the grave with Joseph and he also added one of Joseph’s son’s.
No proof, but it does cause some serious questions and more possibilities for the tracks and digging discrepancies. .
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Joseph was alone in his grave. Gianni and Joseph jr. were buried with Summer. I’m not sure if there was anything in the grave with him other than the hammer if I remember correctly?
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The hammer was found in Summer’s grave.
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Always the true historian 🙂
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I think a bigger question is why were there two separate tracks, two separate graves? Truecrime believes they were buried on the same day. There is only one day where Merritt’s phone pinged the VV tower. But we know there are a few days where his phone was off. One time in particular was for 20 hours. A very long time by anyone’s standards.
It’s possible he had them stored at some facility and drove back and forth to bury them on the same day. But the track width is bothersome. Did he drive there and bury Joseph first (is that why his grave is labeled “A”?) before the rain and then Summer and the boys after/during the rain? Or is it because, even though the tracks/graves are only 20 feet apart, it’s a different composition and loose soil depth for tracks/grave B and those to grave A are more hard panned?
Time to review some video.
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Yeah, why if all the bodies are in the truck together, does he move the truck 20-25 feet over to dig the second grave? Why didn’t he dig the graves closer together,say 10ft apart, and keep the truck in one spot?
Maybe he got spooked and took off after completing on grave and returned later to dig the second grave.
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Why have I always thought there was a child and a parent per grave? A fallacy that has stayed with me. Smh.
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Sylvia, until yesterday I believe likewise until Fran pointed it out to me that Gianni was in Grave B with Summer. It really creates a different perspective for me now.
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That changes things.
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There are inferences that can be made from the evidence we’ve heard, but, I agree the details of what exactly transpired that night after CM shut off his phone may never be known.
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Oh my God, not again
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/missing-oklahoma-family-of-five_us_56ec3a8ae4b09bf44a9d252a
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There’s an update on this link Corn. Says they have contacted them and they are safe.
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Yeah thanks I just discovered that
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Any idea what happened at Merritt’s hearing today? It seems the San Bernardino web site has changed and I cannot see any case details.
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SAN BERNARDINO — A continuance was granted Wednesday to the new defense of the accused killer in the McStay family murders case, according to Superior Court of San Bernardino County spokesman Dennis Smith.
Riverside-based attorney Rajan R. Maline requested the continuance because more time was needed, according to Smith.
Smith could not elaborate on why more time was needed; however, it’s possible Maline requested the continuance in order to prepare Merritt’s defense prior to the start of trial.
Merritt, 58, hired Maline and James McGee II earlier this month after he fired a team of attorneys, which included Maline, in January. At the time, Merritt was unwilling to waive time for trial.
He previously cited purportedly failing health and a fear that criminal proceedings would drag on too long when he fired former attorney Robert Ponce in January 2015, Ponce said at the time.
Merritt was arrested in 2014 in connection to the 2010 killings of Joseph McStay, 40, his wife Summer, 43, and their two young sons, all from Fallbrook.
Prosecutors alleged last June that Merritt bludgeoned the McStays to death with a three-pound sledgehammer before burying their bodies in shallow graves near Stoddard Wells Road in Victorville, according to a previous Daily Press report.
His former defense has called the evidence against Merritt “very circumstantial” and previously contended there isn’t a shred of physical proof to tie him to the murders.
Following the continuance, a hearing date was set for April 29 to confirm whether Merritt is prepared to proceed to trial, Smith said.
Matthew Cabe can be reached at MCabe@VVDailyPress.com or at 760-951-6254. Follow him on Twitter @DP_MatthewCabe.
http://m.vvdailypress.com/article/20160323/NEWS/160329905
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This is via Twitter posted by Candace. Thank you Candace!
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But really though, how long does it take to get discovery from the previous counsel. They should be able to hand that over in one day. More BS delays.
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Why are you guys saying both boys were with summer in a grave? Where is the proof? I never heard that. I heard Gianni with Joey.
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Troll, it was not stated during the prelim which grave Joseph Jr was buried in, only that his remains were found outside of the graves.
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Or I’m sorry, Gianni was with Summer.
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I think Gianni was with Summer and Joseph Jr. was with Joey. Joseph Jr. I think was found outside of the grave, or his skull was, and some items and bones from Joseph’s grave were also outside of the grave. I’m not sure but I haven’t heard that Summer’s grave was disturbed at all because of the fact that the bones of Gianni still had the diaper and pants intact on his skeleton with Summer on top of him. That part was the testimony that made Chase turn beet red (according to other people in the court that day) at the prelim.
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A piece of her bra, white terrycloth fragments, faded tie down straps, female end of extension cord and a beer bottle or can were found north of the grave.
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Oh right forgot about that. Amazing that Gianni wasn’t disturbed at all. None of Summer’s bones were found outside though right?
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I suppose it is possible then that both Joseph Jr. and Gianni were in Summer’s grave, but I personally think he separated them one child in each grave.
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I thought the beer can/bottle was found inside the grave containing Summer along with her cellphone cover, the hammer, and other objects.
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Nope, it was outside the grave.
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Forensic Science Tech Stuff.
TV CSI versus forensic investigation in the real world. Visit Dr Haskel’s pig farm where he studies insects to help determine the time of death. The Body Farm, an outdoor anthropological research facility, where scientists study human decomposition and their findings are used to help identify missing persons. Hard tissue and skeletal remains analysis, blood spatter analysis, recovering serial numbers, evidence collection and the importance of chain of custody.
Some of this is kind of gross so you may just want to roll and scroll.
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This is to Fran’s comment upthread from 3/18 irrc, about Merritt maybe taking a shirt from the house to change into. Good possibility, and I wonder if he could wear anything of Joey’s – shirt, pants, shoes or was he known to keep a change of clothes in his work truck. Also anyone know if all sets of keys known to the trooper were later accounted for? (and hi all, I’ve tried to keep up with entries but no real good time lately to post)
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Hi D’Lil,
Are you thinking Joseph’s clothes may have been too small for Merritt? I agree for pants and shoes, but he could have probably fit into an oversize Tshirt.
I know from the prelim that the lock on the trooper had to be forced once it got to the crime lab. I don’t think I the keys were ever found.
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Thanks Fran- was rolling it around if premeditated – if Merritt brought a complete change of clothes with him…or grabbed something from the home. So many towels missing, some may have been for his personal use. Just thinking of other cases where it seems the criminals tend to hang on to footwear but discard/destroy the garments. I did think some type of keys were found in Joseph’s shorts tho. ? Memory is getting foggy
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Yes keys were found in JM shorts pocket. A ring of keys and a loose key. Not sure if they were car or house keys or both.
It’s mentioned in the probable cause of a warrant for a storage facility (that was used by both JM and CM) and that CM made a payment to in April 2010. I think LE was looking to see if CM had purchased a new lock and key. I’m speculating that is because the loose key and one key on the ring were both for the same storage locker.
It’s horrible to think of the murderer washing up and changing in the home, but I think he would have had to. I have wondered if he wore a pair of coveralls over his street clothes. Maybe he kept a set in the cab of his truck.
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Ah, very thoughtful, wise one. I didn’t think about the change of locks. And he pays the storage in April. So what, if anything, was in there? I have heard that the storage in Big Bear was checked early on and it was empty. Maybe they checked the other as well. Although I wonder if JM asked for Chase to surrender the key back at the Lunch meet. That could also explain it.
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For some reason the search warrants pdf won’t open for me now. It’s on page 131 if anyone wants to check.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/29453814/33-redacted-search-warrants-released-in-mcstay-murder-case
I think you’re right about JM demanding the key. Maybe he was concerned about his tools or fountain supplies being stolen by Merritt.
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Both graves reported to had been disturbed. So far, there is nothing to indicate what grave Joseph jr was buried in. I’m basing my conclusion that he was with Summer because of the partial cup of her bra was outside of the grave as well as what appears to have been a portion of her robe. Page 15. Whenever discussing the child’s remains outside of the grave, it seems they are always doing so in relation to Grave B.
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Here what was found outside the grave besides bones
By Mr. Imes) Were you familiar with some items that
3 were found near grave B but not contained within the grave?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Can you — do you recall what, specifically, you were
6 made aware of or observed?
7 A There was another right cup or a piece of bra that was
8 stuck to a greasewood, that was black in color. We recovered
9 that. Red straps, like a tie-down strap that was faded.
10 Q What do you mean by a tie-down strap?
11 A If you ever transport something in a truck, you usually
12 tie it down with a ratchet strap.
13 Q So, a ratcheting-type tie-down strap, as opposed to just
14 a piece of rope that you would tie something down with?
15 A Correct. It appeared to be faded at the time. And there
16 was a female extension cord socket. It was white in color.
17 Q Just the socket part, or more of the extension cord
18 itself?
19 A It appeared if it had been cut off of an extension cord,
20 just the female socket part.
21 Q Anything else?
22 A I believe a beer bottle, or a beer can.
23 Q Find any other white towel-like material outside the
24 grave?
25 A Yes.
26 Q Where was that located?
27 A I think they were located north of the grave.
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Him he asks “near grave B”. Maybe there was other objects found near grave A? Or the only objects found were all located near grave B?
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Excuse me but was it a beer bottle or a beer can? I would try a little harder to know the specifics of my case. Just sayin.
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I so agree.
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I think Joseph, Jr. was probably wrapped in his robe, also indicating that maybe Summer was giving him a bath at the time.
“In the grave itself there was like a black nose, eyes and
9 a whisker and some padding consistent with the bathrobe that was
10 depicted in the picture with Joseph, Jr.”
So, which grave was that found in? I think that will give a strong indication which grave Joseph, Jr. was buried in.
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I agree.
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But now I think of it some more the robe could also likely have been found outside of the grave since none of Joseph, Jr.’s remains were found in any of the graves. Yet, if the robe was in fact found in one of the graves, that’s an indicator which grave he is in for sure.
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Yes. That was my thought process as well. I think the robe was most likely wrapped around SM secured with a red tie down.
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*was in
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I also think logically speaking if Joseph, Jr. were in Summer’s grave he also would have been placed under her as Gianni was.
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That’s interesting. My interpretation of “bottom half” is that G was located at one end of the grave,, like by S feet. If G was under or beneath S perhaps that’s why he wasn’t disturbed. Perhaps Jjr was more off to the side by S and that’s why he was pulled out?
I’m thankful they are resting peacefully now.
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That’s how I interpreted it when I read the prelim how Gianni’s skeleton was totally undisturbed, in that his diaper and pants were still surrounding the skeleton.
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It could also have to do with how they were placed in the truck. Taken out and put in the grave in the same order.
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Yes, possibly. It could also be based on how much room was in the grave when Chase was making that decision.
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I’ve read somewhere in the news that the graves were very shallow. IIRC, Joseph’s was18″ and Summer’s 16″.
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I just read that Summer’s clothing was found at a depth of 16 inches in Grave B. Very shallow, it seems.
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You know, maybe Joseph, Jr. was in Summer’s grave. Before I was positive he was in Joseph’s but looking through the prelim it really doesn’t say. Thankfully he did surface to bring attention to the graves which might otherwise have never been found.
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There is a picture somewhere with Joseph Jr in the kitty towel. I’ve seen it. Working on tracking it down.
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Would like to see that!
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The write up of yesterday’s hearing has been updated to include these statements from Maline.
“Basically it’s discovery compliance,” Maline said. “…there’s so much of it that it’s taken some time to get together.”
Maline said Merritt is “on board” with Maline’s current timetable because Maline and McGee are making progress.
“I think part of the problem before (with the previous attorneys) was that there wasn’t progress being made,” Maline explained, “but we’re making progress to being ready and that’s all he asked for. If you think about it from his standpoint, he’s an innocent man in jail for something he didn’t do. And that’s very frustrating and we understand that.”
“We will have made enough progress by then to forecast when we’re ready for trial,” Maline said of the April 29 hearing.
http://m.vvdailypress.com/article/20160323/NEWS/160329905
Thanks to Rose from the other blog.
Mattias and team weren’t making progress? They said they’d be ready by Aug. Let’s see when Maline and McGee think they’ll be ready…Sept or October at the earliest I predict.
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Since Maline was ON the other team, I find his words to be disingenuous.
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I find Maline’s words to be complete and utter bullshit!
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Maybe Maline and Mettias did not get along. It’s apparent that Merritt caused some friction as well. Merritt’s and Mettias’ relationship obviously ended tumultuously. Maline seems level headed and is soft-spoken. Maybe deemed as a push-over. McGee not so much. He seems to have a stronger presence, one that will not be bullied by Chase’s BS.
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Which is ridiculous because Merritt fired Mettias because he didn’t want to wait until July/August for the trial.
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Last week on either Dateline or 48 hours there was the story of a psychopathic defendant who murdered his ex-girlfriend. He told everyone he wanted to go to trial as soon as possible to prove his innocence. He went pro se, then had attorneys assigned, then back to pro se, then more attorneys assigned, and so on. This went on for eight years!! We can only hope if CM continues this pattern Judge Smith will shut him down (as he implied he would) and the trial will be scheduled.
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I feel bad for the victims family. Waiting eight years for trial.
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In my case, my family members were murdered October 24 2007. The perp was convicted October 3 2013. Almost 6 years to the day and the perp was caught the same day the crime occurred. It’s not uncommon, unfortunately, for the process to literally take years to resolution. In the US criminal justice system it’s all about protecting the rights of the accused in order to make justice stick. Defendants like Merritt and the convicted in my family’s case milk the system and create delays. But it has to be done right or these people walk free. The defendant seems to be running out of options in this case, looks like there could be a trial start before the end of the year. That’s a good thing!
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I’m so sorry for your loss and your family’s loss, Karmatea.
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So sorry for your loss karmatea.
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Can anyone clear up this statement in the warrants:
“Joseph McStay was found to own and use a T-Mobile cellular phone of (949) 295-
7 451. Summer McStay was found to own and use a T-Mobile cellular phone of (949) 295-6411. Summer and
Joseph McStay’s Google cellular telephones were never recovered at their residence or in the gravesites. It is
believed the suspect in these murders took the cellular phones.”
Are the T-Mobile and Google phones the same phones? I’m thinking they must be the same, or if not they didn’t recover the T-Mobile ones either.
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I think T-Mobile is the cell service provider. Google is a brand of Android cell phone.
So S and J both had google cells phones and subscribed to T-Mobile for service.
Does that sound right?
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* cell
Between weird auto correct, the predictive typing feature, my failing eye sight and one finger typing I’m batting a thousand these days when it comes to typos. Apologies.
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Thanks Fran, that makes sense! I think you are probably right.
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Here’s the bit about the keys:
On Sept 23,2014, Detective Smith received the records for Charles Merritt account with Bank of America. During the analysis, Smith located a transaction on April 9,2010 at AMS Mini Storage in Pomona, California for $134.50. Smith conducted a records check on AMS Mini Storage and learned it was within a half mile of a business building used by Merritt and McStay. Merritt’s financial records do not show any other transaction for the business in the months before or after the April transaction.
It is believed Merritt and McStay used the storage facility to store their business items. On Tue Sept 24,2014 I went to the storage facility to ascertain records for the locker rented by Merritt. I observed Chateau Lock’s displayed for sale on the counter. When McStays body was recovered, he was found to have a key to a Chateau lock on the key ring in his pocket and a second loose key in his pocket. The employees at the business claimed they may still possess sales records for locks purchased by tenants….
http://mcstayfamilymurdersthetrial.blogspot.ca/2015/07/92514-vvsw-14-1667-recordseip-storage.html?view=magazine
Thank you Balderdash.
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Thanks for finding that Fran! You are a good egg (with some glitter sprinkled on by the Easter Bunny). It could seem that during that fateful lunch meet up that Joseph asked for and received the storage unit key. Either Merritt didn’t need to take it out of Joseph’s pocket at the house or desert, or he already had a spare made prior.
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A good egg…. lol….. In my cabinet of special of special things, which smells of ambergris, I have hard boiled eggs that my children decorated while in preschool. Those Suckers are more than twenty years old. They are so pretty but Lawd help us if they ever break open!
Happy Easter
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That should be *Cabinet of special things
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I have been preoccupied with my kiddo being on spring break so I’m trying to play catch up with the comments but I have a quick observation…
I am so impressed by the dedication and commitment of every single person on this blog. We don’t know each other nor do we know the McStays but it’s so heart warming to know that we are all wanting the same thing and we won’t give up until justice is served.
My other observation is that I am so damn impressed with everyone’s memories and dedication to sticking to the facts and finding the truth. I am proud to have connected with everyone here and hope that someday soon we’ll be celebrating the conclusion of this case.
And Fran, you are a good egg even if you might have some stinky eggs in your closet. 🙂
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http://rickbakerblog.com
I thought you all should know that Rick has left the arena once again. Peculiar. He visited my blog again late last night. I wonder what the draw is. Why does anyone visit if we aren’t discussing the facts or possible scenarios of what Chase did? I mean, should we be looking at other possible suspects, looking for another killer? Like OJ said he was?
That worked out well.
I have been meaning to work on a couple of new posts regarding some info I think should be discussed. Right now I am limited to working with a phone (funny, 10 or 15 years ago would not be considered ‘limited’) and have been ill. But I’ve done a ton of research and found a treasure trove of info I think you’ll all like to dig into. But really, how much more can be found for this case?
You’ll see.
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I’m totally intrigued about the next post! Hope you’re feeling better soon.
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“I wrote the book on the McStay family and after three years on the case, officially left it in August, 2015. Currently, I am a Managing Partner in our non-profit breast cancer foundation, LAFF2LIVE. 501(c)(3) application status.”
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“I wrote the book on the McStay family”
I’m sorry Rick, you are very sadly mistaken, you did not.
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More like layed a smelly turd.
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I think what Baker meant to say was “I wrote the book on how to torment and vilify the McStay family”. What a piece of…
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https://cuttingthebs.wordpress.com/2016/04/02/thats-the-signpost-up-ahea/
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